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when I think about 1969 and I look back

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you know a hair right now in the back of

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my neck is arising because I remember

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those days was really the focus of what

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we have been preparing for after

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President Kennedy had really charted us

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as now so to try to send somebody to the

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moon and bring him back safely and

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really when the words were said you know

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they just said rang a bell with me after

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all those years and the hard work and

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the sweat the blood looking all the

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problems that we had been through so

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there's no question if you go back and

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look in history and I'm a history buff

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by the way and I look at what we've done

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really with the lunar landing I think I

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don't know of anything that it's greater

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than that you think about wars and you

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think about back in history and a lot of

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the things that's happened but if you

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think about human endeavor I don't know

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of anything when you talk about

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well we have to go back a few years if

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you want to look at what made the

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program successful and I have to give

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the German team really the credit and I

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started with a lot of them in early 50s

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because we were with the army in those

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days and of course 1960 we went to NASA

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but a lot of work had begun von Braun

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was always interest in space travel

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he didn't care a thing about military he

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didn't care the thing about ballistic

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missiles and so forth but of course he

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came over here with the paperclip when

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we brought two people over after World

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War two

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the German team when they came here to

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redstone and started just extending the

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v2 the old v2 rocket that they had built

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in fact he was the key person in that

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and we went to the Redstone muscle then

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after that that was about a hundred

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seventy-five nautical mile listing

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missile and after that was a Jupiter

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missile which was an intermediate-range

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ballistic missile fifteen hundred miles

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we all worked on that then the idea came

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up with he really wanted to build

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something big that he could go into

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space and carry some heavy payloads so

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we started looking at how does one

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cluster we took the tanks from the

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Redstone 70 inches in diameter we took

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the Jupiter which was I in a minute

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range here immediate range ballistic

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missile it had 105 inch in diameter and

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then with clustered goals and we was

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able to cluster an engine we had eight

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engines nine tanks now think about how

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do you get the propellants and for for

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the benefit let's say of people they may

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not know how rocket engine works but you

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have to have a fuel and oxidizer when

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you go up into space is no air up there

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like an airplane or a jet engine

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wouldn't require so we care oxidizer and

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most of time we use liquid oxygen and

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the fuel can be different things your

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automobile uses gasoline back in those

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days we use alcohol 75% alcohol

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there's a few and then we went to

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Keirsey and rp1 or jet fuel but we had

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to design the system and we clustered

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the tanks and you had to manifold all

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these system you get both the oxidizing

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the fuel to the individual engine but if

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you got eight engines you can imagine

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what a plumber's nightmare you had and

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you had cross feed you're worried about

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one engine would do something to the

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engine adjacent

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to it whether it was the feed system or

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was vibrations or whatever so we went

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through a lot of testing to do that in

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addition to clustering engines then you

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had to pressurize the tanks once you

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start taking the propellants out if you

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don't continue to put the pressure in

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there the tank will collapse so we had

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pressurization system we had to design

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and we went through a lot of tests here

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at our Center to develop these systems

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we did a lot of the analysis and

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everything in fact I had worked in

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propulsion and that's why I keep

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referring to the engines and a

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propulsion system because that that's

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the experience I had acquired back

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during those years

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well after we flew we flew some 10 of

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those the old Saturn 1 Saturn 1b after

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we clustered them and we went to a

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second stage and we went to a high

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energy system so far as the engine

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performance and used liquid hydrogen as

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a few still liquid oxygen is oxidized

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now you say why do you use liquid

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hydrogen if you remember your chemistry

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will it has a molecular weight of two in

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terms of performance it gives you the

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highest performance and we that was new

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to us in those days no one had used

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liquid hydrogen as a fuel you got to

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recognize the liquid oxygen is at minus

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297 degrees Fahrenheit cried genie the

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liquid hydrogen is minus 421 degrees

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well that brings in a lot of problems

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how do you maintain that you don't have

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a vacuum bottle or something you have

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insulation you have to be concerned with

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in addition you have problems of getting

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the propellant at the right conditions

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for the engine in your car your car does

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what use gasoline you have a carburetor

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and you take air from the atmosphere you

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atomized the gasoline and you force it

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into your combustion chamber you have a

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spark plug too United with very similar

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and a rocket engine okay we have pumps

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to do them the same thing where we take

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the oxidizer from a few we ignite a lot

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of times with the spark spark igniter we

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call it then we have what we call an

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injector face plate that atomizer

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instead of a carburetor in fact it's a

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lot simpler we don't have Pistons like

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you have in a in an automobile or

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internal combustion engine so but you

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get into problems if you're familiar

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with some of the problems you have your

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car some time you turn the switch off

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when you hear a pin and it won't stop

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it's sort of decently

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well we call it combustion instability

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in the case of a lot of the hydrocarbon

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engines you can get involved with that

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where you don't get complete combustion

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and alas you sit there and destroy

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itself it goes into the various modes of

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vibration modes and I'll sit there and

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destroy itself and as we move from the

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Saturn one I want to make the point as

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we go to the Saturn five which is what

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we use for the Apollo this one see the

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first stage use five f1 engine each

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engine had a thrust of something like

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1/2 million pounds so we had five of

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those which gave you seven million

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pounds thrust well you needed that to

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get all this mass off and it uses liquid

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oxygen and that was a new engine now is

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a huge engine but we had all kind of

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problems in early days name of this

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combustion instability and now if you

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can envision an injector plate some

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three feet in diameter with all these

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holes at it we had problems with the

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thing in fact we spent over thirty

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million dollars has some of the best

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brains in the country helped us on this

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same had teams working it some people in

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fact with the presidential scientific

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committee said you'd never get an engine

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that large to run the Russians nobody

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ever built an engine at large and

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therefore we were kind of the first one

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but combustion instability almost

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brought us to our knees we set up

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special teams and with our contractor

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Rocketdyne which is the vision north

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american back then and we had people

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from nasa and i participated and a lot

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of that myself personally but a lot of

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work was done and make a long story

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short if you visualize them and a flat

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placement a flat plate injector and we

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put baffles in there and you wanted to

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be sure that they could attenuate or

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dampen any kind of oscillations well

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then what we would do it put a little

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bomb we would put a little bomb and then

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set that bomb off during the firing and

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we do this on a test stand but we should

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do like tests right here in our single

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engine test stand on our test area and

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we set this bomb off and see how long it

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would take to dampen and if it would

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dampen with the various configurations

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that we felt like we had a dynamically

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stable injector and eventually we were

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able to do that it took months and

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months months to do that

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in addition you have problem with pumps

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and you think about turbomachinery

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because we take the propellants from the

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tank and we're driving them into the

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combustion chamber at high pressures the

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combustion chamber pressure on f1 is

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about a thousand pounds per square inch

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which was really unknown in those days a

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high Swede meant something like full 500

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pounds per square inch so as you grew up

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in pressures that meanness move 40 more

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problems associated with your turbines

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we pump the impellers etc so all those

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problems had to be worked had to be

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looked at and we we blew up a lot of

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lakhs of liquid oxygen pumps a lot of

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pumps we blow up and there's nothing

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like if you can visualize when you have

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liquid oxygen and you know about welding

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and they use the settling you know when

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he's cutting a piece of steel there was

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he do he presses the button for more

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oxygen there and that's the thing it

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gives you the high heat of course we've

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got oxygen there if you get a fire going

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look out because it's gone

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everything around it's gone there's

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nothing as serious as a liquid oxygen

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pump explosion and we had many of those

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in those days but we had barring problem

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and turbine blade problems that we had

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to overcome and there was many years

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that we we worked and I when I say we

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work we NASA with our contractors and in

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braining consultants we had academia

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assisting us and helping us in all these

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areas

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it was long hours I mean blood and sweat

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on the road a lot traveling we had a

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test dance for the f1 and it was Air

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Force Base where we land Space Shuttle

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now at big test stands out there we had

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explosions there in reqtest and

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sometimes and eventually was able to do

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testing here at Marshall and then one

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with cluster the engine we actually did

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the cluster tests out here what we call

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the s1 see that was the first stage of

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Saturn and with cluster the engines and

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did all static fire in fact built the

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first stages they brought all the

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hardware here brought the engines and we

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did all the cluster tests here initially

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and eventually once we froze the design

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and then we brought Boeing in as a prime

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contractor to actually pick up and do

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the design in New Orleans and build the

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hardware down there and now we would

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barge all the hardware you imagine 33

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foot in diameter the tank was 33 feet in

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the second stage again used a new engine

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what we call the j2 engine it was a

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liquid oxygen liquid hydrogen engine the

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one I'd mentioned earlier was 15,000

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pounds thrust this one had around

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200,000 pounds now we had five of them

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which gave us a million pounds in the

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second stage and what you do you'd burn

273
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:31,990
the first stage for about 130 seconds

274
00:10:35,249 --> 00:10:33,970
first stage was separating dropping

275
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:35,259
ocean the second stage would have

276
00:10:40,499 --> 00:10:38,050
ignited igniting and it would burn for

277
00:10:42,809 --> 00:10:40,509
some five or six minutes and then all

278
00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:42,819
you're doing is adding impulse or energy

279
00:10:45,689 --> 00:10:44,500
to the whole system and of course the

280
00:10:48,059 --> 00:10:45,699
payload up there is what you're

281
00:10:51,030 --> 00:10:48,069
interested in and we had problems with

282
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:51,040
the second stage a lot of problems in

283
00:10:55,079 --> 00:10:52,930
terms of propellant conditioning as I

284
00:10:56,730 --> 00:10:55,089
mentioned earlier you have to have the

285
00:10:59,309 --> 00:10:56,740
propellants at the right temperature and

286
00:11:07,350 --> 00:10:59,319
pressure for the pumps and again we're

287
00:11:09,150 --> 00:11:07,360
at cryogenic temperature at night a

288
00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:09,160
Mississippi test facility which is

289
00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:12,310
Stennis Space Center today I spent a lot

290
00:11:17,220 --> 00:11:14,649
of time I said personally in Downey

291
00:11:19,949 --> 00:11:17,230
California with the first what we call

292
00:11:22,319 --> 00:11:19,959
the t-bird that was a second stage test

293
00:11:25,889 --> 00:11:22,329
bird call it the bird because it's going

294
00:11:27,629 --> 00:11:25,899
to fly but we did a lot of testing down

295
00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:27,639
here but what they did after they built

296
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:29,800
it we had a milestone we've committed

297
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:31,689
with Congress and with everybody to get

298
00:11:35,699 --> 00:11:33,970
ready for them the lunar mission so we

299
00:11:37,769 --> 00:11:35,709
actually shipped this hardware

300
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:37,779
well von Braun is one of the funny

301
00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:41,529
stores with von Braun he invites all the

302
00:11:46,049 --> 00:11:43,420
big shots from Washington Administrator

303
00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:46,059
and all of them and they all fly into

304
00:11:52,410 --> 00:11:48,100
Gulfport Mississippi and our test site

305
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,420
is near Picayune Mississippi and the

306
00:11:56,309 --> 00:11:54,639
base manager there was Jack bolt he was

307
00:11:58,079 --> 00:11:56,319
our base manager so what does he do he

308
00:12:00,059 --> 00:11:58,089
gets the Highway Patrol and state of

309
00:12:02,129 --> 00:12:00,069
Mississippi and also in state Louisiana

310
00:12:04,799 --> 00:12:02,139
and they set a world record drive from

311
00:12:07,019 --> 00:12:04,809
Airport up to the stent up to the the

312
00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:07,029
site there for the test course everybody

313
00:12:10,740 --> 00:12:08,470
was all uptight because that was gonna

314
00:12:12,689 --> 00:12:10,750
be the first test on the second stage

315
00:12:15,660 --> 00:12:12,699
where we we finally got a good test off

316
00:12:18,509 --> 00:12:15,670
that night made many tips down there but

317
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,519
eventually what happened well they over

318
00:12:22,930 --> 00:12:20,079
pressurized the tank and the tank was

319
00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:22,940
destroyed we had investigation

320
00:12:29,380 --> 00:12:24,500
knew what was the problem when we fixed

321
00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:31,660
third stage was built by McDonnell

322
00:12:37,270 --> 00:12:34,160
Douglas Huntington Beach and their

323
00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:37,280
testing was up in Sacramento they had a

324
00:12:40,750 --> 00:12:39,020
test facility up there and had a single

325
00:12:42,970 --> 00:12:40,760
engine the one engine

326
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:42,980
like I mentioned on the second stage the

327
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:46,370
j2 in they had one and eventually they

328
00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:48,170
had a problem up there was on the engine

329
00:12:53,170 --> 00:12:51,500
so von Braun he bars Casey's airplane

330
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:53,180
and it was a dose to go out on that

331
00:12:58,090 --> 00:12:56,480
thing it was a a Lockheed Jetstar well

332
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:58,100
here's a young engineer and ever been on

333
00:13:02,920 --> 00:12:59,600
that little jet engine and all jet

334
00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:02,930
airplane and everything and we went from

335
00:13:08,890 --> 00:13:05,870
Huntsville Redstone out here to Van Nuys

336
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:08,900
to our contractor and you owned up to

337
00:13:15,250 --> 00:13:12,710
Sacramento went out to test and we set

338
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:15,260
up investigation see what we need to do

339
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:19,010
and so we got ready to come by and they

340
00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:20,480
had a Stewart on there and they were

341
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:23,090
lucky contractors but I asked young

342
00:13:26,980 --> 00:13:25,130
fellow I said can you tell me something

343
00:13:28,510 --> 00:13:26,990
about the jet engine what the thrust is

344
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:28,520
or something I said I got a son I like

345
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:30,770
to tell him about this and I was just

346
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:32,480
like a kid with a new toy being on this

347
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,610
airplane so he went off about ten

348
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:36,320
minutes he came back and he gave me this

349
00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:39,970
little brochure and it had all the

350
00:13:44,530 --> 00:13:42,110
description of what the airplane would

351
00:13:47,770 --> 00:13:44,540
do cetera except well the last page in

352
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:47,780
there was a certificate and it says this

353
00:13:52,810 --> 00:13:50,210
is this is to certify that Alexei McCool

354
00:13:54,490 --> 00:13:52,820
jr. blah blah blah date so-and-so did

355
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:54,500
fly in Sacramento altitude so-and-so

356
00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:56,810
ground speed of so-and-so and the pilot

357
00:14:00,700 --> 00:13:58,850
signed it well I looked down and who was

358
00:14:02,650 --> 00:14:00,710
the pilot Wernher von Braun and I looked

359
00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:02,660
up him here what's coming from the

360
00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:04,340
cockpit up there and he had a big old

361
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:06,950
grin on his face and he wasn't checked

362
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:17,100
that was really you know they will do

363
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:19,360
all this and us work with all the

364
00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:21,850
counterparts let's theater at JSC at

365
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,450
Houston

366
00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:24,639
our friends down there and then

367
00:14:29,129 --> 00:14:26,889
integrate all of this including all the

368
00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:29,139
work at Kennedy Space Center because

369
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:31,000
then you got all the launch complex to

370
00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:32,610
deal with you got all the propellant

371
00:14:37,019 --> 00:14:34,750
systems that you got to fill in drain

372
00:14:38,759 --> 00:14:37,029
the tanks etc you got all that launch

373
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:38,769
commit criteria to deal with all

374
00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:41,110
electrical systems to deal with so it

375
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:43,990
was a big job that went NASA we all had

376
00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:47,649
to really get involved with and it was

377
00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:49,240
very challenging a lot of meetings a lot

378
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,740
of travel long hours von Braun was in

379
00:14:56,850 --> 00:14:55,120
the middle of all levels you know he's

380
00:14:59,310 --> 00:14:56,860
come around before we get down there

381
00:15:01,680 --> 00:14:59,320
like for our first flight which was what

382
00:15:04,889 --> 00:15:01,690
we call a s 501 that was our first one

383
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:04,899
and eventually it flew we didn't have

384
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:07,839
any problems on it second flight we did

385
00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:10,720
have some problems on the first stage we

386
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:13,510
saw what we call pogo pogo as a as a

387
00:15:19,319 --> 00:15:16,750
vertical oscillation you can what

388
00:15:22,350 --> 00:15:19,329
happens there is the engine's natural

389
00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:22,360
frequency was around five cycles or five

390
00:15:28,259 --> 00:15:25,390
Hertz very very low frequency but it can

391
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:28,269
couple with a structural frequency and

392
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:30,310
it couldn't it can be bad or it could be

393
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:31,810
uncomfortable for the astronauts were

394
00:15:36,509 --> 00:15:33,730
you actually sitting there so we had to

395
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:36,519
come up with a design fix and to

396
00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:38,230
attenuate that and we were able to do

397
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:39,760
that through the pre valves and all you

398
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:41,560
had was cavities there that one

399
00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:44,170
attenuate and in fact today on Space

400
00:15:48,329 --> 00:15:45,790
Shuttle we have what we call Pogo

401
00:15:51,380 --> 00:15:48,339
suppressors so that was a new thing to

402
00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:51,390
us in addition on the second stage now

403
00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:54,220
we had some something neither lines that

404
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:56,649
carried fuel and these were braided

405
00:16:02,370 --> 00:15:59,199
bellows and abraded was to allow them to

406
00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:02,380
articulate to move and everything and we

407
00:16:06,449 --> 00:16:04,510
noticed that the one of the engines shut

408
00:16:08,850 --> 00:16:06,459
down during flight but it's on our

409
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:08,860
second Saturn 5 now this is scary you

410
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:12,399
know he just started flying and pretty

411
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:14,290
soon the other in just a second or so

412
00:16:18,809 --> 00:16:17,170
another engine shut down so there was

413
00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:18,819
three engines left and it continued to

414
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:20,500
burn it burned longer because the

415
00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:23,410
propellant was still there and you still

416
00:16:26,460 --> 00:16:24,790
got the velocity and of course the

417
00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:26,470
guidance system was able to correct for

418
00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:27,350
this

419
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:29,990
and eventually they separated and in

420
00:16:37,810 --> 00:16:33,290
third stage it went into a low Earth

421
00:16:40,510 --> 00:16:37,820
orbit and it was too restarted and it

422
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:40,520
couldn't restart well we found out it

423
00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:42,110
was the same kind of problem here's this

424
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:44,620
fuel line so we was able to go back and

425
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:47,720
ascertain what had happened and when

426
00:16:50,770 --> 00:16:49,490
we've been testing you know test stance

427
00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:50,780
with this engine and here's this

428
00:16:55,930 --> 00:16:53,720
articulated line and it could get air

429
00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:55,940
that would liquefy and actually build up

430
00:17:00,610 --> 00:16:58,370
to ice and what you have if y'all

431
00:17:03,130 --> 00:17:00,620
familiar of what we call vortex shedding

432
00:17:05,050 --> 00:17:03,140
when you have bellows or something flow

433
00:17:06,490 --> 00:17:05,060
there and it actually would set up an

434
00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:06,500
oscillation it's a little bit like

435
00:17:11,949 --> 00:17:08,829
though familiar like a a chimney or uh

436
00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:11,959
smokestack the wind going around that

437
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:13,670
will set up vortices and get it moving

438
00:17:18,460 --> 00:17:16,010
or bridges will do that so you try to

439
00:17:20,260 --> 00:17:18,470
design to stay away from that but that's

440
00:17:22,270 --> 00:17:20,270
that's exactly what happened we didn't

441
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:22,280
know that we were able to test in a

442
00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:23,930
vacuum and prove that you didn't get the

443
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:26,270
liquification to attenuate it so we

444
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,360
actually got really the braids but on

445
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:31,520
the next flight now which was kind of

446
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:34,930
interesting he decided to go ahead and

447
00:17:40,270 --> 00:17:37,970
in fly you know man these were not man

448
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:40,280
flights and that was a big one I

449
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:42,410
remember we set the whole had all the

450
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:44,450
corporate presidents here and all we

451
00:17:48,430 --> 00:17:46,160
keep people it was a meeting here at our

452
00:17:51,130 --> 00:17:48,440
Center all the people in Washington came

453
00:17:53,140 --> 00:17:51,140
down do we fly man on a next mission

454
00:17:55,870 --> 00:17:53,150
and he decided to go ahead and do that

455
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:55,880
and then after that and they of course

456
00:18:01,390 --> 00:17:58,880
went around the moon and and of course

457
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:01,400
Frank borman's thing that he did before

458
00:18:06,220 --> 00:18:03,770
Christmas and the one it really sticks

459
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:06,230
with me is the guys on Christmas Eve

460
00:18:09,730 --> 00:18:07,850
when they went back to I'm getting goose

461
00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:09,740
bumps now thinking about they went to

462
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,830
the book of Genesis and Frank starts out

463
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:14,480
in the beginning you know God created

464
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:16,220
heavens and earth and the guys actually

465
00:18:20,770 --> 00:18:18,170
they each one of the crew members they

466
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:20,780
read parts of the creation account from

467
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:22,820
the Bible on out today maybe that's a

468
00:18:27,610 --> 00:18:25,310
no-no I don't know but it really sticks

469
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:27,620
for me to this day because it was

470
00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:29,570
Christmas Eve and here they've gone

471
00:18:34,930 --> 00:18:32,500
around the moon first time now anybody

472
00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:34,940
and of course that was a precursor for

473
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:36,740
us being able to go to the moon you know

474
00:18:43,810 --> 00:18:38,450
we weren't sure what was involved in

475
00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:47,409
and he just let me use the words walk to

476
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,190
talk okay you know what I mean by that

477
00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:51,200
he would come around you know you he

478
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:52,940
would call or how the secretary called

479
00:18:57,099 --> 00:18:55,369
say he's coming over he just show up he

480
00:18:58,659 --> 00:18:57,109
come looking all the drawing board so

481
00:19:00,849 --> 00:18:58,669
what he got going on won't you design it

482
00:19:03,249 --> 00:19:00,859
this way that way but he was a people

483
00:19:05,169 --> 00:19:03,259
person he was really interested and I

484
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:05,179
and I try to do that today myself I

485
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:06,710
learned that from him you got to get

486
00:19:10,419 --> 00:19:07,970
around where the people are doing the

487
00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:10,429
work I mean sitting in your office or

488
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:12,590
sitting in meetings well he did allow

489
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:14,090
that don't misunderstand but he always

490
00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:16,129
used opportunity to get out and talk to

491
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:18,289
the people people on the floor owned the

492
00:19:23,259 --> 00:19:20,570
shops how you doing it once you do it

493
00:19:26,499 --> 00:19:23,269
this way brilliant person very brain had

494
00:19:28,989 --> 00:19:26,509
all kinds of ideas you know good

495
00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:28,999
technical mind but if you go back to his

496
00:19:31,899 --> 00:19:30,710
early experience and I think that's

497
00:19:34,629 --> 00:19:31,909
that's the key here

498
00:19:37,269 --> 00:19:34,639
is keeping his hands dirty in other

499
00:19:39,249 --> 00:19:37,279
words when he was young you know he was

500
00:19:41,889 --> 00:19:39,259
involved in testing himself he was

501
00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:41,899
involved in design he had learned it the

502
00:19:45,219 --> 00:19:43,700
hard way just like you know working on

503
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:45,229
your car you gonna learn yourself when

504
00:19:48,489 --> 00:19:46,609
you skinned your knuckles and everything

505
00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:48,499
he had done that he learned the hard way

506
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:50,899
himself and he sort of preached that to

507
00:19:55,389 --> 00:19:53,690
us it's hands-on do you things hands-on

508
00:19:58,269 --> 00:19:55,399
and I think that's what made our center

509
00:20:01,049 --> 00:19:58,279
so great over the years is the hands-on

510
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:01,059
work that we would do in-house

511
00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:03,049
capabilities that we have developed over

512
00:20:06,609 --> 00:20:03,529
the years

513
00:20:09,549 --> 00:20:06,619
blonde brawn always you know he exude

514
00:20:11,499 --> 00:20:09,559
this idea of teamwork now he had you

515
00:20:14,349 --> 00:20:11,509
know la to keep people of the Germans

516
00:20:16,239 --> 00:20:14,359
and they were our bosses and but they

517
00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:16,249
worked very well with us they just they

518
00:20:20,649 --> 00:20:17,960
were glad to have us was all part of the

519
00:20:22,810 --> 00:20:20,659
team there wasn't any partitions between

520
00:20:24,729 --> 00:20:22,820
us you could say what you want they

521
00:20:26,529 --> 00:20:24,739
wouldn't take it personal he's always

522
00:20:28,479 --> 00:20:26,539
building up the team building up for

523
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:28,489
people but von Braun was able to do

524
00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:30,080
things like that he was able to go to

525
00:20:36,039 --> 00:20:33,320
Congress you know and articulate you

526
00:20:38,589 --> 00:20:36,049
know NASA's needs probably the charisma

527
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:38,599
he had you know he knew this you really

528
00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:41,090
knew everything he was just so good and

529
00:20:44,409 --> 00:20:42,590
you got to think now here's this guy

530
00:20:47,049 --> 00:20:44,419
when he was in Germany in his days in

531
00:20:48,820 --> 00:20:47,059
his early 20s he was the technical

532
00:20:50,649 --> 00:20:48,830
director so there's no question you go

533
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:50,659
read the history and everything well

534
00:20:55,389 --> 00:20:53,330
this this country I think if you go back

535
00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:55,399
and look we were so fortunate and

536
00:20:59,549 --> 00:20:57,340
getting him plus all his team

537
00:21:01,470 --> 00:20:59,559
that's not to say that the Russians

538
00:21:03,180 --> 00:21:01,480
didn't get quite a few they got a lot of

539
00:21:05,129 --> 00:21:03,190
production manufacturing but I believe

540
00:21:07,739 --> 00:21:05,139
that this country did well by getting

541
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:07,749
him here and his team and I he was able

542
00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:10,720
to help all of us and he always had in

543
00:21:13,710 --> 00:21:11,740
his mind you know

544
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:13,720
going to the moon who went out into

545
00:21:18,930 --> 00:21:16,450
space space exploration he always he

546
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:18,940
would talk about their over and over and

547
00:21:23,489 --> 00:21:21,129
over and history is proving that if you

548
00:21:25,470 --> 00:21:23,499
look back now you look at Skylab I mean

549
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:25,480
he was heavily involved in that which is

550
00:21:29,489 --> 00:21:27,129
really our first space station in this

551
00:21:31,529 --> 00:21:29,499
country but he was somebody I'll tell

552
00:21:34,379 --> 00:21:31,539
you that you just enjoy being around he

553
00:21:37,889 --> 00:21:34,389
just seemed like he's just a good coach

554
00:21:39,779 --> 00:21:37,899
good team leader excellent you know in

555
00:21:40,889 --> 00:21:39,789
terms of working with people they bring

556
00:21:42,749 --> 00:21:40,899
congressmen you know we've had

557
00:21:49,769 --> 00:21:42,759
presidents come here and he'd always be

558
00:21:55,259 --> 00:21:53,820
I think to me that the lunar landing has

559
00:21:57,810 --> 00:21:55,269
probably been one of the greatest things

560
00:21:59,869 --> 00:21:57,820
that man has ever done no question in

561
00:22:02,519 --> 00:21:59,879
terms of exploration it is the greatest

562
00:22:04,169 --> 00:22:02,529
but it took thousands and thousands and

563
00:22:06,029 --> 00:22:04,179
thousands people took a lot of money

564
00:22:07,379 --> 00:22:06,039
took a lot of blood and sweat people

565
00:22:09,419 --> 00:22:07,389
prepared to do that

566
00:22:11,700 --> 00:22:09,429
there was a lot of safety issues had to

567
00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:11,710
be addressed a lot of unknowns a lot of

568
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:13,929
things that we did that we knew it was

569
00:22:18,479 --> 00:22:14,700
different

570
00:22:20,099 --> 00:22:18,489
so there's no question culmination of

571
00:22:22,649 --> 00:22:20,109
actually landing in and bringing them

572
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:22,659
back was getting the bike safely and

573
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:25,089
once we had splashdown and recovering

574
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:26,710
all that and that was the time to time